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| Consumer Review: Androstenedione and Creatine Have, I Believe, Caused Undesirable Side Effects. |
| Thanks for giving those of us with questions or concerns about using unregulated nutritional supplements a forum for sharing those questions and concerns.
Creatine usage, I believe, led to a major tear of my bicep muscle. I'm a slow gainer, and had been working with a personal trainer for over a year without any truly appreciable gain in muscle mass before I started using creatine. I loaded and dosed as most do - 20 grams/day for 5 days during the loading phase, and 5 grams/day during the maintenance phase. I did notice almost immediate gains in absolute max and duration; I gained 5 pounds and improved my maximum bench by 10%, squat by 15%, and curl by 15%. About 6 weeks after beginning my creatine regimen, I suffered major tear of my bicep during the negative phase of the last rep of a 4-set run of preacher curls. I firmly believe that the endurance gains afforded by creatine played a precipitating role in that muscle tear; until that point, I had never experienced a muscle pull with a severity anywhere approaching that of the bicep tear. A note to readers: according to my orthopedic surgeon, such bicep tears can be re-attached within 2 weeks of the initial trauma; after that, you basically have no surgical option, and will have a "high" bicep for the rest of your life.
Androstenedione has, I believe, also caused undesirable side effects. Before I began dosing androstenedione (usual dosage was 200 mg. 45 minutes before a workout, 2 to 3 times a week) I exhibited what my girlfriend characterized as essentially normal ranges of mood. I was not prone to outbursts or undue aggression. After a period of about 3 weeks of the andro regimen I described above, I began experiencing mood swings and a marked increase in vocal outbursts of rage that prior to that point I had never before exuded. The outbursts have continued, and come as a result of stimuli that I would normally not find all that inciteful. I am afraid that the increase in testosterone levels brought about by the andro regimen I've been pursuing has caused this dramatic increase in moodiness - it's about to tear my relationship with my girlfriend completely apart. I'm going to reduce my dosage of andro to 100mg per workout, twice a week, to see if that has any impact on the frequency and severity of those mood swings. I'll keep you posted!
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| Response #1 |
| Your submission about the use of androstenedione was very helpful to me. In the wake of Mark McGwire's admission that he uses the supplement I was strongly considering doing the same and was wondering what the result of your decreasing the intake of androstenedione was.
For your information, I have read that 100mg doses is ideal for the drug and in testing increased testosterone levels approx. 337 percent. So I would keep it to that level, due to unclear side effects.
I would greatly appreciate it if you drop me a note letting me know what the 100mg dosage of androdstenedione does for you.
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| Response #2 |
I think the bside effect story was just that a "story". I mean, come on a bicep tear! mood swings. This person has read too many steroid nightmare stories and seems to be exaggerating the truth.
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| Response #3 |
Did you have the bicep tear repaired? Did it tear from the bottom or top? I had shoulder surgery 8 weeks ago that repaired a partial tear and this past weekend,I snapped the long head of the bicep tendon. Do you know of the issues to having it repaired or not having repair?
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| Response #4 |
Thanks for the heads up. I'm about to start andro myself and am concerned about side effects. I have heard through another trainer that the Journal of the American Medical Association has reported "bitch tits" as a side effect. I have a contact at a state medical society, and am in the process of locating this article. I'll let everyone know what I find.
Also, I have found information from the German patent that says that 50mg given orally to men raises testosterone levels in the bloodstream to 140 to 183 percent of normal. I won't even bother to tell you want 100mg does. It will only stay elevated at these levels for three hours. So, it is thought that your pituitary gland will not respond by reducing your own body's production of testosterone.
Instead of the 200 mg that you indicated, I think we should be happy with the increase in testosterone levels that 50mg offers. It's cheaper and you'll live longer!
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| Response #5 |
I just tore my bicep muscle today the exact same way as the writer described. I was on creatine for the exact same time period. I also would like to know if he had it repaired and, if so, what was the result?
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| Response #6 |
I think I have heard enough about the mood swings and muscle tears. What about the long term effects of androstenedione? Does it cause the same liver damage and kidney damage associated with synthetic anabolic steroids?? 300%++ of testosterone production on 100mg of the hormone has to have some serious effects with respect to longevity! Big muscles are great, but are they worth a liver transplant or DEATH? My advice to anyone that reads this is to wait for the FDA to research the drug before cramming it into your body, after all, the effects of synthetic anabolic steroid usage on certain vital organs are irreversible!
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| Response #7 |
I have also read that the occurrence of "bitch tits", as it was phrased in response #4, can affect some individuals who use androstenedione alone. Supposedly, this is due to some of the androstenedione converting to estrogen instead of testosterone. Newer formulas have been developed that stack androstenedione with tribulus terrestris. Trib is supposed to increase the leutenizing hormone levels in the body which minimizes estrogen conversion of andro. I have just finished my first 6 week cycle with trib stacked with andro (and dhea), and have noticed no "estrogenic" effects. I did, however, notice some mild mood swings while in the cycle. These were, I think, mainly due to the fact that the boosts in testosterone only last about 3 hours and you feel so good during those 3 hours that when you return to normal blood testosterone levels, you feel somewhat of a letdown. I was easily able to control these swings though and didn't become what I would call aggressive.
Oh ya...results?? I am fairly impressed with the drug. I have lifted regularly (3-4 times/week) for about a year now. My max on my bench went from about 280lbs at beginning of cycle to 315lbs at the end (honest to god truth). I don't know if it was just from the pump that andro gives you during a workout or if it was from the extra mass that I put on (about 6 lbs). I also take creatine so the gain might actually not be due to andro at all, but the creatine. I have noticed no side effects other than the mild mood swings. I recommend that people (men only) try a cycle and judge for themselves!
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| Response #8 |
Before taking andro I did some research. While doing this research, I found out exactly how andro works. Androstenedione is a direct precursor to testosterone, meaning andro is transformed into testosterone when aided by a zinc enzyme. Now, excessive use of andro or continuous, meaning taking it all day, can cause the pituitary gland to stop producing as much testosterone naturally, because the andro is. this is one known side affect. A less known side affect is that excessive use or overdosing can also cause andro to transform into estrogen, a hormone women produce naturally, and men (in small quantities). When andro produces estrogen in the body, men begin to see side effects such as breast enlargement, which goes along with estrogen presence. Whether taking an estrogen blocker will reverse theses effects, I don't know, but I do know that andro can produce estrogen.
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| Response #9 |
Its only a matter of time till Andro is off the market. Some say that history repeats itself. Anybody remember the discovery of dianabol, the first and most toxic oral anabolic steroid ever discovered? This is not natural. I take Andro and my eyes feel like they are going to explode and I get headaches.
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| Response #10 |
I think its doubtful at best that this bicep tear was caused by creatine. I think the person was just pushing too hard. I used creatine for one year. I could never bench anything. Within that year my bench sky-rocketed from 95 lbs to 275 lbs at the top of a pyramid. Now those are facts. I didn't see quite the same results on other body parts, but there was a definite increases in performance. Oh, and I never got hurt.
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| Response #11 |
I would like to report that I too have experienced moodiness since I started taking androstenedione. I have only taken it a week too! 100mg 1 hour before working out. I've been less patient and more inclined to be angry against my girlfriend.
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| Response #12 |
| I read the original report and all of the responses to this question and I can't help but wonder how people can be so uneducated about these supplements when they're sitting in front of the best wealth of knowledge available. I easily found out that possible side effects of androstenedione include mood swings, rashes (which we all saw first hand on Mark McGuire), increased body hair production, and others that are less common and which I can't remember right now.
This all seems pretty understandable since the whole purpose of andro is to dramatically boost testosterone production. As for the response noting that Andro can 'turn into' estrogen, that's absolutely absurd. As for the claim that Andro can cause the natural amount of testosterone production to decrease, this is definitely true, but only if the supplement is overused for an extended amount of time. The 3 hours that andro boosts testosterone production is nowhere near enough to destroy the natural functions of your pituitary gland.
As for the much more common side effects such as the mood swings the person mentioned in the original report, that is simply part of the gamble involved in using any drug or supplement. If you are willing to risk undesirable side effects of smoking marijuana, that's your choice. The same is true with andro. No one claimed it didn't have side effects (if they did they were trying to sell it to you) and no one claimed the side effects and their strengths would be the same for every person. Everybody's biochemistry is different and will react differently with various introduced chemicals.
As for creatine, I'm not quite as knowledgeable about it, but it is known to have possible side effects which can severely damage your liver. It has been discussed that the supplement is basically the same as a prescription of doctors for a condition that I can't remember right now, which is given with high warnings to remain on the suggested dosage due to possible liver complications.
READ MORE people. Go to a few search engines and read various articles before deciding to take a supplement or before complaining that it made you feel weird and think a little too. If you suddenly change a natural level of something in your delicate body, you have to expect something to happen.
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| Response #13 |
| After reading all of the posts and complaints about both products, I noticed that most people seemed to know how to load and maintain (which anybody who can read and follow directions can understand). But its evident that they have no knowledge of what or how creatine and andro work. Creatine is a water retaining supplement that fully hydrates your muscles. If you don't already drink at .6 ounces of water for every lb that you weigh, you will have muscle cramps and eventually muscle tears. The author of report 9 listed all that he did to start taking creatine, but never mentioned an increase in water intake. That is probably the reason for the muscle tear.
As for andro, the daily dose of it is 100mg (1 pill) a day. To my knowledge, andro is not a supplement that you must load on and have a maintenance dose of. So, if you are not lifting 7 days a week (which is not good because the body needs at least 24 to 36 hours to recuperate from lifting), you only need to take it on days that you lift. I have not experienced mood swings or increased aggression. I have been taking andro for almost a year. now and the only side affect, if you can call it that, is that I have started to grow hair on my chest (I'm lucky, I'm not hairy like an ape).
People need to learn and become more informed on the products that they use. What does it do to your body, etc.? Creatine doesn't make you gain 10 lbs in a week! What it does is make your body retain water. Nothing on earth will make you gain 10 lbs in a week. There are some benefits. In the long term you will gain mass, but once you get off of creatine, look to lose about 20 to 25% of what you gained.
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Response #14
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First off, the reason you pulled your bicep was because of dehydration, i.e. you need to drink more water. Second, creatine is in no way whatsoever in logical doses damaging to your health. Sometimes it is stated that creatine puts a tax on the the kidneys, but that is a very widespread myth. Second, little andro boy.... all andro does is raise your estrogen levels and decreases your testosteron. Yes there's a short, and I mean very short, duration in which your test levels are spiked, but the rest of the time you're slowly developing the testosterone output of a woman. So all your crap about it causing outbursts or whatever is a bunch of bull. Taking andro is like saying, "hey I want the bad side effects of steroids but no muscle gains." If you're set on screwing your hormones just get the real thing. I'm outta here.
P.S. There was a double blind university study that proved what I said about andro.
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Response #15
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I am responding to response #12. I would like to aks if you have ever taken these supplements. Just because you do research, doesn't mean it's true. Anybody can put what they want on a web site, true or not. I have just started taking creatine, and I would like to say it is helping tremendously. As for side effects, I will get back to you. But as I have read on this site, there aren't many, if any at all.
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